« Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 » Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register. May 20, 2013, 3:36am

SBG Sword Forum :: Reviews :: Sword Reviews :: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 Page 1 of 3 » Jump to page   Go     Author Topic: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 (Read 7,156 times) Tom K. (ianflaer) VIP Reviewer Review Team Shortlist Candidate member is offline Accusharps are EVIL do not allow them to touch your swords. Survive your first sharp: TRAIN BLUNT! Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 4,523 Location: Oregon (currently) Karma: 302 Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Thread Started on Feb 15, 2010, 7:03pm » Review of the Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 By Tom K A little while back Chris Scoggin of Ronin Katana posted a thread in the manufacturers and vendors area to discuss his new Dojo-pro line of katana and the fact that while they were through hardened, some of them showed what appeared to be a hamon (or hamon-like activity). The thread turned pretty ugly for a while but eventually cleaned up and some excellent information was shared on hamon/temper lines and TH vs DH. Here’s a link if you want to read it all: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index....ay&thread=13894 Well, it wasn’t long after that thread had run its course that Paul posted in the VIP reviewers forum that he was looking for some of us to test one out and write a review. I jumped on that fast since I had followed the thread and my interest was piqued. Paul wasted no time sending me a dojo pro #6 and this is the sword I will be telling you about today. Historical Overview: The "dōtanuki" (jap. 同田貫 or 胴田貫) is a very thick, long handled sword resembling a katana. The dōtanuki was made to slice through a target with just a single cut.[1] "Dōtanuki" is the name of a Shintô period smithing school in Higo Province (Southern Japan). There were quite a few smiths who used the name dōtanuki, and their swords have a reputation for being very sturdy, having rather broad blades, and cutting well. Made to slice through its target with a single cut, a sword of Dotanuki design is characterized by its thicker and heavier blade. Once a favorite weapon of Japan's feudal warlords, or Daimyo, this sword design was considered to be the apex of military dynamism and power. However, Edo period sword testers seemed to have a different opinion, since dōtanuki blades are not found among the "Wazamono" listings. The artistic features of the dōtanuki swords are rather unremarkable, supposedly due to their lack of the laminated construction. Initial Impressions: This sword is VERY attractive and it was the beauty of the item that struck me most the moment I laid eyes on it. It immediately felt very solid and authoritative. This is not a light and fast sword, no sir, this is a heavy cutter. I don’t know if this sword really fits the dotanuki style or not since I have never seen a real dotanuki but this sword certainly gives a feeling of being a bit heftier than so many of the lighter production katana on the market. If feels similar to a cheness kaze, and much heavier than a Musashi bamboo (black bamboo/bamboo warrior/etc.) however, it is not unusually wide for today’s standard what with all the wide competition cutters out there like the Hanwei Elite and XL lines. To the modern sword collector/enthusiast I think this sword will seem to be of more traditional, if stout, shape and design and I think it will be seen as an attractive alternative for the power cutting style. Vital Statistics: Overall length: 39.5 inches Blade length: 27 inches Blade width at habaki: 1.25 inches Blade width at yokote: .75 inches Tuka length: 11.25 inches Point of Balance: 4.75 inches Weight: 2 pounds 8 ounces Components: Blade(Yaiba): this is, without doubt the most interesting part of the sword; especially since the large debate centered around it a little while back. Its shape is basic shinogi zukuri with a cosmetic yokote. The Kissaki is cross polished as is normal with this level of production katana but it is well done and not unattractive. The habaki fit to the blade is good, not great but good. There is a small gap between the habaki and the ji on either side but it is small and the habaki is otherwise well shaped. The blade is sharp enough to cut well right out of the box, though not as sharp as Hanwei swords tend to be. I will probably end up sharpening it up to my standards eventually but out of the box it is quite nicely sharp. This is a Through Hardened line of katana but it was announced that some of them would exhibit some hamon-like activity. This sword has some very interesting activity all up and down the shinogi. It is feint but visible to the naked eye and devilishly hard to capture on camera. If you have ever seen a real hamon that had cloudy parts around it that’s what this hamon-thing looks like. It is cloudy and not sharply defined like a good hamon but it is obviously there. So the question arises: is this blade actually Differentially hardened? My answer to this question is “yes, and no.” I’ll explain. It is obvious that this blade was not clayed so that earns it a no as a katana that is DH is expected to be clayed. Claying leaves a nice distinct hamon, and in fact the reason (metallurgically) for the clay is primarily to control the hamon and where it forms and to concentrate it to make it more obvious. However, Kris Cutlery makes their hamon without clay and they are accepted as DH by everyone I have spoken to. The pure fact that we have this sort of activity means that there IS a change in the hardness of the steel and this temper-line is the evidence of that change. During my test cutting with this sword I beat it pretty hard and I did bend it a few times. From bending and straightening it I can say it feels like other DH blades I have handled and not at all like TH blades. It is not as springy as TH blades, it has that stiff bendable feeling that all the other DH swords I have handled also have. All this isn’t enough though, I had to go further. I took a file to it. I pulled out my favorite sword file, one I have used many times on other swords so I know how it feels on a blade. The area near the cutting edge is definitely harder than the shinogi ji or the mune. The difference in how eagerly the file bites is pretty obvious. After I had done the cutting the blade needed cleaning and polishing so I did all that and etched it too. The first round of etching started showing the hamon again in the same place so now I am confident in saying that it was for sure the structure in the steel and not some trick of polishing or something. So is this sword DH or TH? I think I can call this particular sword DH but as I understand it not all the swords in this line will have this sort of activity so they should be considered TH but you might get a DH one. Tsuka: this is a really well done tsuka for the price range. It is nicely waisted, very comfortable to grip, the ito maki alternates properly and is quite tight. The samegawa is very good quality with large nodes, one solid unbroken piece and good even color. The Menuki are some sort of critter but they appear to be well cast with clean lines, I just don’t know what it is. The ito seems to be good quality chemical silk and feels very pleasant and grippy. I know the description on the SBG store says it is silk but it feels like Synthetic silk to me. I am not an expert on this so I’ll give Ronin Katana the benefit of the doubt and accept it as silk even though the same ad claims the fittings are all iron when they are obviously copper or copper alloy. the woodwork for the tsuka is very solid and good. no cracks at all nice and safe tsuka. Tsuba and tsuka parts: The tsuba is solid copper (or coper alloy) and painted black. I really like the seppa Ronin Katana uses, they are similar to the ones used on mid-level Hanwei swords. In fact all the fittings on the Ronin Katana are of similar quality to what is used on mid-level Hanwei swords like their popular Wind and Thunder. For a sword in the Sub $300 price range to have such nice fittings is really impressive the fuchi and kashira are very plain but well made Saya: The saya on this sword deserves a little bit of love all by itself. I can’t tell you how happy I am to see a sub $300 sword with something other than a plain gloss black saya, not to mention a design that is actually very attractive all on its own. The sageo is bar-none the best quality sageo I have seen on a sub $300 katana and its color pattern is a gorgeous compliment to the black and white paint on the saya. The kurikata, kojiri, and koiguchi are all very obviously high quality horn and it is visible immediately. I have never seen such nice horn fittings on any saya I have ever seen especially the kurikata which I love. Not even the Hanwei Bushido has a nicer kurikata. This baby is posh! Fit and finish: The finish on this sword is very well done. The shinogi ji is a near mirror finish and the ji is a very bright satin. There are a few minor scuffs here and there but nothing that would ever annoy me. Fit is one of the places this sword really shines. The tsuka fits tight and secure but was not jammed on so hard it was difficult to remove for a safety inspection. The sword fit to the saya is really exceptional. Just check out this video: Handling and Cutting: I have to admit that handling is not one of the things that really impressed me about this sword. It isn’t bad but neither does it stand up as good as the rest of the sword. This sword is a heavy cutter and not a light fast fancy cutter. There’s plenty of power in it but it just doesn’t turn the way I really want it to. This may just be a personal nit-pick and I won’t call it a negative but if you are looking for a fast sword, this isn’t it. With some practice I’m sure I’ll get used to it and come to like the way it moves better. But you all want to see it cut some stuff up don’t you? Of course you do. In this next video I proceed to abuse this sword to see what it can take. Please don’t think that just because this sword survived me doing this to it doesn’t mean you should do it to yours. I bent this sword a few times doing this and I still haven’t got it 100% straight again. So enjoy the video but don’t do this to your sword. Conclusions: This sword has a lot of things going for it and is without doubt one of the highest quality katana available in the price range. As a result of the abusive testing the sword is no longer as tight and solid as it was before. It survived without any real damage though. I re-inspected the tsuka afterwards and no hint of cracking to be seen. The kashira has come loose a bit and rattle now but stays in place. The Shitidome in the kurikata on the saya have come loose and popped out of the kurikata, but other than that the sword is still as sound and ready to cut as the moment it came out of the box. I like this one a lot. Pros: Beautiful – the finish, the saya design, the fittings, everything about this sword is pretty, I’d be proud to put it up on display for the neighbors to see. The Saya is a breath of fresh air and a beautiful design. Fit the fit on this sword is amazing. Waisted tsuka feels good in the hand Properly alternating ito maki (it is so nice to see this on a sword in this price range.) Cons: DH or TH? I don’t know what you will get, we have to assume they are TH swords but the one I have doesn’t act like a TH sword. There is basically nothing wrong with this sword, sure there are things that could be done better but that would require greater cost. Sure, we’d all like real silk ito and full wrap samegawa and emperor nodes and more detailed fuchigashira but those thing come with higher cost and Ronin Katana did a really good job of building this one on a budget. Over all it is a better built budget katana than any other I have ever seen. THE BOTTOM LINE: I definitely recommend this sword to anyone who likes authoritative katana with attractive fittings. It is great for the beginner as it is forgiving of mistakes and easy to fix if you do happen to give it a bend. It is also good for more advanced katana files and sword students who want a traditionally shaped heavy cutter but don’t want to break the bank and who are sick of the cut-corners found on so many budget level katana. Basically if you like medium to heavy weight katana this is a good sword for you. If you want a super light and fast cutter this isn’t it. UPDATE! as pointed out by Chris of Ronin Katana the tsuba, fuchi, and kashira ARE in fact iron. they have a copper coloer primer that is very tough which led me to believe they were copper. thanks to Chris for pointing that out. « Last Edit: Feb 17, 2010, 4:20pm by Tom K. (ianflaer) » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged See SBG's COOLEST CUTS: http://sbgswordforum.proboards70.com/ind....ead=7758&page=1 Sharpening Video Tutorials: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index....3&page=3#155365 Midori Kurogami VIP Reviewer member is offline Swords are like women; they are happiest when they're close to someone who loves them. Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 614 Location: Somewhere close to swords. ;) Karma: 127 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #1 on Feb 15, 2010, 7:19pm » Very nice review, Tom! Glad to see you put to rest the speculation of the previous thread as well. +1 from me! Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged In this world we walk on the roof of hell, gazing at flowers. -Kobayashi Issa My Reviewer Profile: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index....ad=14693&page=1 "If it doesn't make you money, and it doesn't make you happy, let it go." I'm the katana guardian angel! johnwalter Swashbuckler member is offline "I fart in your general direction" Joined: Jan 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 494 Location: N.C. Karma: 27 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #2 on Feb 15, 2010, 9:42pm » Nice review Tom.+1 for the destructive vid,great music choice. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged "Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time" "Make it a steal,with a Wiwingti deal!" sanchezero Knight Review Points: 20 member is offline Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 217 Karma: 17 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #3 on Feb 15, 2010, 10:29pm » thanks for beatin' the crap outta that thing, tom. i still haven't cut more than a few bottles with mine - we've have a coupla feet of snow on the ground forever now and more to come. +1 lick of a tootsie roll pop for you. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Stupidity - the number one sexually transmitted disease. James Gall Global Moderator member is offline "Birds & Beasts, when brought to bay, will use their Claws & Teeth." - Chen Hao Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 2,280 Location: Chicago, Illinois Karma: 210 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #4 on Feb 15, 2010, 11:05pm » Nice review, Tom, That looks like a pretty reliable cutter, and i hope to get my hands on one soon! Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Honto no kanashimi ga shiritaidake, Doro no kawa ni sukatta jinsei mo warukuwanai, Ichido kiri de owarunara 6stringseme Knight member is offline If you were me... you'd be good lookin'. Joined: Jan 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 173 Karma: 14 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #5 on Feb 15, 2010, 11:46pm » Wow, you really laid into that christmas tree! My masahiros and musashis would be scrap metal if I tried that! +1 for your review. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Tomius Knight member is offline vires et honor Joined: Dec 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 225 Location: finland Karma: 16 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #6 on Feb 16, 2010, 4:25am » very nice review and pretty good katana.. i had to think getting one of these myself .. « Last Edit: Feb 16, 2010, 4:26am by Tomius » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Proprium humani ingenii est odisse quem laeseris mrfatbucket Swashbuckler member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 442 Location: UK Karma: 45 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #7 on Feb 16, 2010, 7:24am » Its good to see more pictures of these. What was the condition of the blade after you cut the old christmas tree? The point of contention with the blades was mainly fuelled with the owner of ronin katana simply pulling out if the conversation when he felt like it with no real information on his side. So you may get a blade that exhibits all the of traits of a DH blade or a possible TH blade. Wow, that sure is awesome for the customers. Can you see the massive amount of problems that could arise from this? You wont even know exactly what your buying until you get it. Also how was the material of the fuchi/kashira so wrongly appointed? Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged sicheah Guest Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #8 on Feb 16, 2010, 7:43am » Seems like a TH blade, although the tempering is not perfectly even and exhibits the "sub-hamon-like" activity. I have a 1095 TH Chinese sword from jin-shi and it exhibits the same characteristic you describe here. It is very difficult to spot and you could see it under bright fluorescent light (Mine is so faint I could never get it on camera). If it is a DH blade, you could easily spot the hamon even in poor lighting. That one tough blade you got there. +1 for a thorough review. « Last Edit: Feb 16, 2010, 7:57am by sicheah » Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged mrfatbucket Swashbuckler member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 442 Location: UK Karma: 45 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #9 on Feb 16, 2010, 8:41am » For Sicheah. No that's not the case. Depending how the blade has been finished can greatly change the appearance of the hamon. If you check the review again youll notice that he mentions the hardness fluctuations between different areas of the sword. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged snowstorm Man at Arms Review Points: 20 member is offline Joined: Jan 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 20 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Karma: 6 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #10 on Feb 16, 2010, 9:38am » Being that the edge is much thinner than the back will, to the best of my knowledge, always result in the edge being harder as it can cool faster. This blade was not clayed and the ghost harmon is not placed purposefully to give the edge the 60 hardness common on the DH blades. That said, there is no way I'm aware, nor would it be logical to do, to harden the edge and the back of a katana to identical levels. The harmon on these swords seems to be a result of blade geometry and natural cooling of metal in a medium (I believe oil in ronin's case) and nothing more. You cannot expect the thick back of a katana to have the same hardness as the edge, just due to the shape of the sword. Given that, there is some point where the hardness drops off due to blade geometry and at that point a ghost harmon will form. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Tom K. (ianflaer) VIP Reviewer Review Team Shortlist Candidate member is offline Accusharps are EVIL do not allow them to touch your swords. Survive your first sharp: TRAIN BLUNT! Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 4,523 Location: Oregon (currently) Karma: 302 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #11 on Feb 16, 2010, 2:53pm » Paul and Chris (of Ronin katana) are in discussions looking to sort out some of these discrepancies. I won't say what the plan is, as I really don't know, but from what I hear I think the community will be very happy with the direction Paul and Chris take with these swords. stay tuned for more info guys. when I was done cutting the tree the sword was slightly bent and covered in tree sap, but the edge was in exactly the same sharpness as before I started no rolling or dulling at all. the sword has a very reliable edge, I am please with that. the blade definitely ACTS like a DH blade more than a TH one in many ways. it is not a traditional clayed DH blade but it has different levels of hardness between the edge and spine. more so than most TH blades I have seen. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged See SBG's COOLEST CUTS: http://sbgswordforum.proboards70.com/ind....ead=7758&page=1 Sharpening Video Tutorials: http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index....3&page=3#155365 mrfatbucket Swashbuckler member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 442 Location: UK Karma: 45 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #12 on Feb 16, 2010, 4:25pm » As far as I can see there isnt really a way to resolve this without recalling the line. So in the meantime they are still for sale and buyers should just get a product that the seller doesnt even know how to properly classify. Oh, but dont worry, they will get it right next time. Just keep on selling them and hope the sword you get displays characteristic that lean to the side of th or dh that you were thinking of. Awesome, its nice to know they have the put the buyers first. Just spin the advertising as much as you can so you can sell as many as you can. This isnt a problem for educated and informed buyers but for newbies it is. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged sicheah Guest Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #13 on Feb 16, 2010, 4:43pm » Feb 16, 2010, 9:38am, snowstorm wrote: Being that the edge is much thinner than the back will, to the best of my knowledge, always result in the edge being harder as it can cool faster. This blade was not clayed and the ghost harmon is not placed purposefully to give the edge the 60 hardness common on the DH blades. That said, there is no way I'm aware, nor would it be logical to do, to harden the edge and the back of a katana to identical levels. The harmon on these swords seems to be a result of blade geometry and natural cooling of metal in a medium (I believe oil in ronin's case) and nothing more. You cannot expect the thick back of a katana to have the same hardness as the edge, just due to the shape of the sword. Given that, there is some point where the hardness drops off due to blade geometry and at that point a ghost harmon will form. Thanks, that explain the ghost hamon on my jian Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Ronin Katana Manufacturers and Vendors member is offline Chris Scoggin Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 411 Location: Texas, USA Karma: 24 Re: Review Ronin Katana Dojo Pro model #6 « Reply #14 on Feb 16, 2010, 5:41pm » Tom, I enjoyed reading your review. The copper color you are seeing is a coating. It is there for two reasons. To prevent the underlying metal from rusting, and to help the black oxide coating bond. If you file further, you will see the underlying metal, which is silver in color. The tsuba, fuchi, and kashira all have the same coating. Link to Post - Back to Top   Logged Page 1 of 3 » Jump to page   Go     Forum Jump--------------------» Home--------------------» General--------------------- General Discussion Board --- SBG Site News and Updates- Sword Manufacturers Talk --- Manufacturers and Vendors Shop Talk --- SBG Discounts- SBG Competitions and Members Collections Gallery --- Members Collections --- Archived Competitions- SBG Special Projects --- SBG Beauty and the Blade Calender --- Kokoro Ichi Project--------------------» Discussions of Swords, Traditional Weapons & Medieval Equipment--------------------- Ancient Swords- European Medieval and Renaissance Swords- Fantasy Swords- Japanese Swords- Chinese Swords- Post Renaissance and Military Swords- Other Traditional Weapons- Armour and Shields--------------------» Reviews--------------------- Sword Reviews --- Review Index --- VIP Reviewer Lounge --- VIP Reviewer Profile- Other Weapons and Armor --- Review Index--------------------» Sword Smithing, Customization and Design--------------------- Sword Repair and Maintenance- Sword Customization Projects- Weapon Making Discussion --- Sword Making Stickies --- Fable Blade Creations- Training Weapon Making Discussion- Tools and Toolmaking- Member Designs--------------------» Training--------------------- General Sword Training- Live Steel and Stage Combat- Asian Martial Arts (JSA, Gumdo, etc)- Western Martial Arts (WMA)- Cutting Vids and Tips--------------------» History--------------------- Sword History- Other Traditional Weapons- Misc History--------------------» Off Topic --------------------- SBG Forum Cafe --- Administration --- politcs-graveyard --- Technical Stuff and FAQ- New Members Welcome Wagon!- Firearms Discussion & History- Role Playing Threads

Please note: All reviews submitted here may be edited and brought across to Sword Buyers Guide as a featured review there. Such editing will be limited to minor textual changes (such as the insertion of keywords specific to the review so that it may be found in search engines), spelling corrections and possibly a clearly seperate recommendation by the editor as to where to buy.