Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,396 Location: The land of Oz. Karma: 59
When is a sword not a sword ? « Thread Started on Jun 22, 2007, 11:21pm »
G’day people , you all know me or at least know of me so I will pass on the introductions. As I browse through the reviews section I noticed there was maybe one review for an Iaito(Unsharpened training katana), while this model has been reviewed before by forum member SPUD(very nicely may I say). I am not going to address this entire review in just one post as he has done, but do it in a progressive style over a few postings. As an Iaito is a training weapon it has to “earn its money”to be worthy not just look good so just an 'out-of-the-box' one post review may not be enough . I do intend to change a thing or two on it and may also use this opportunity to educate why someone would actually buy an Iaito over say a sharpened katana (shinken).
My last Iaito was a Japanese one with a zinc-alloy blade. It did me a good 6 years of trusty service and a friend owned it before me so it was a pass-on but still in good condition when I received it. However, due to my current art and my want to implement realistic training methods I systematically buggered up the blade doing jitte-jutsu with it. Handy hint – Zinc-alloy blades and steel jitte don’t mix ! So I decided to retire it and another mate asked if he could have it for the Koshirae (fittings), so it was passed on again. This left me with a little hole in my training regime, and slowly but surely the hole got bigger until the only man who could help me was Paul from SBG and his Cheness STEEL Iaito. I was given an arm twisting offer by him on the type 8 steel model but went with the 29” delux model instead. Mostly because I am a bit of a sucker for brown ito/ black same which this model incorporates. First picture was just out of the box ( and NO, I didn’t cut up the box with the sword!). The obligatory chinese-style inner sword box with Iaito; the small box is the sword stand , and on top of it is the ‘flying cranes’ tsuba I ordered to replace the Shura Tsuba it comes with. .
The Ito is quite tightly wrapped and all aspects of this Iaito seem very secure. The saya is a bit tight on the habaki (blade collar) but most are when you receive them new but will always loosen over time and excessive drawing. As you can guess I am getting tired of the old shura tsuba and wanted to personalize it a bit so I ordered another Tsuba with it. When I do replace it I will keep you all informed pictorily on the change and any issues that may arise. The next picture is of the new tsuba.
The next photo shows the Iaito as it came with the Shura tsuba on it.
The blade is a 1045 steel unsharpened one and has an etched hamon for aesthetics only. It came with all that packing grease on it but was easily removed with a bit of a wipe and then oiled up as all carbon steel blades(sharpened or unsharpened) need to be.
The point of an Iaito is only to be used as a training weapon, to improve your techniques without the danger of having to use a sharpened shinken (live sharpened blade). An Iaito is never a sword but must always be treated as if it were one. If you pursue a JSA, Iaito are like a stepping stone to a complete proficiency with shinken. Before Iaito there is bokken(wooden sword). Even though I have pursued kenjutsu/Iaido for many years, I still use bokken/Iaito for a high percentage of my training needs every week. In layman’s terms, we teach beginners with a blunted blade to remove incident or worrying concern that the practicioner or a fellow student may accidently harm themselves or another with a sharpened blade. Besides this fact, there is no insurance company that I know of that would cover us to use live blades with beginners when we all have to learn from scratch anyway. I suppose it can fall under the joke, when is a sword not a sword ? When it is an Iaito. As my current JSA teaches jitte jutsu , the steel blade should endure a harder regime of contact. The last photo for now I have tried to capture the blunted edge. It is the white line running up the edge of the blade.
Also as most Aussies know we have postal rules straight from hell so another BIG thanx to Paul S. for coming through with the goods again mate. My last Iaito and most of the shinken I use are usually 28” but as I am 6’ 3” I can use a longer blade if I like. This inspired me to get the 29” model which I do notice the difference on when resheathing and the moved centre of balance when swinging. However, you have to love the bo-hi( groove down the blade) when it sings as I swing it (tachi-kaze). This is also a good indication that you are swinging it correctly as if you do it incorrectly there is either no noise or a whirring sound to let you know.
Until next post people.
(Rammstein, now it’s time for your highly suspicious left-handed questions so fire away ! )
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #1 on Jun 22, 2007, 11:47pm »
Gorgeous not-sword, chop. I, too, am quite the sucker for brown-on-black. At first I thought I was looking at the Hanwei Tori iato, but then I remembered where I was. $300 US right guys
I'm anxious to see it in the new tsuba, so get to it.
Before anything starts, yes, I am personally avidly against myself, personally, owning an iato, but I will not speak ill of anybody else owning one, or of iato themselves. A finely crafted work in steel is a finely crafted work in steel, whether it cuts or not. I merely prefer mine cut.
So yeah, get on that there redressing and get back to us.
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,711 Location: Fresno, CA Karma: 96
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #2 on Jun 23, 2007, 12:19am »
I'm interested in the same thing myself, chopchop... please inform me as to quality of the ito-maki, and also the koshirae in general. Also, how well does it fit into the saya?
Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,396 Location: The land of Oz. Karma: 59
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #3 on Jun 23, 2007, 1:31am »
Quote:
I'm interested in the same thing myself, chopchop... please inform me as to quality of the ito-maki, and also the koshirae in general. Also, how well does it fit into the saya?
The Ito is quite tight but not as tight as my PPK. It is better than the one on my Shura ko which is a bit fuzzy. The more I handle it though I can see that it is wearing nicely, sort of smoothing out rather than getting fuzzier.
I think these fittings would look nice with a Kaze blade. Oh the possibilties !
Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,396 Location: The land of Oz. Karma: 59
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #4 on Jun 25, 2007, 9:08am »
Hello all back again
While I am not really a Craft-based persona as I have said before I only do alterations when something either pisses me off or" I can't stands it anymore", while the Shura tsuba doesn't really piss me off I already have one on my Shura Ko so would like a bit of variety.
Ok so here I am on Ye olde sword table in the garage. The mekugi (pins through the handle) came out without any trouble and it took just a few taps with my rubber mallet to remove the tsuka (handle). Once the tsuka was removed I was pleased to see the mekugi ana (drilled holes) were very well positioned on the nakago (tang). I tried fitting the new tsuba to the nakago but as the hole was a little small I had to file it out a bit with my trusty file. It is just a small file I use , it is quite thin but never seems to give no matter how much I go at things.
Finally after much wiggling of the said tsuba and a few swear words hereafter, I had the new Tsuba installed on the nakago just comfortably. Suddenly just remembering that the Shura tsuba is about a millimetre thicker than my Flying cranes tsuba I wish to install. D'oh, should have ordered a spare set of seppa with the Iaito but too late now I'll have to make one until I can seek professional help. Basically even a small gap will create a shaky feel to the grip if all fittings are not tight, so will have to leave you all there until I can get down the hardware shoppe for some copper.
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,711 Location: Fresno, CA Karma: 96
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #5 on Jun 25, 2007, 2:44pm »
Just curious... how does the iaito handle? It's got a PoB of 6.5'' instead of the 5'' stated on their shinken... is it difficult to control performing ko-kesa-giri?
Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,396 Location: The land of Oz. Karma: 59
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #6 on Jun 25, 2007, 10:03pm »
Because of the tightened fit of the scabbard I am pretty much primarily drawing and resheathing to loosen it a lttle mate.
As I have said earlier, the moved centre of balance is taking a bit of getting used too. When I bought my PPK initially I thought it was blade-heavy but after a weekends tameshigiri it felt as though the balance evened out to almost normality. Now my PPK feels almost too light. With regards to Ko-kesa giri, I would say I am suffering a little overswing as the balance has not got into me as of yet. I find lifting arm-weights helps with any overswing problems I encounter as the inherit strength building in my arms keeps the cutting motion intact.
It is all good for training as you know . Everytime I get a new Iaito or shinken I try to get a different length, sori, or p.o.b on the blade, just to keep it real and interesting mate .
Joined: Jan 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,396 Location: The land of Oz. Karma: 59
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #8 on Jun 27, 2007, 9:21am »
Ok went down the local bunnings(hardware) and all I could find in 1mm copper was a bag of pipe brackets. So I got them home and flattened a few. I used the seppa that came from the sword and traced the inner hole onto the flatened bracket. Put copper into a vice and drilled through it a couple of times, then cut the corners out with tinsnips. I kept cutting slices out of the centre until it fit the nakago(tang). The photo below shows my bodgy-ness in action. It is the size it is as to not be seen between the tsuba and tsuka, and will suffice until I can order a spare set.:).
But low and behold I went to the fridge for a beer, and when I returned noticed the holy complexity of what I had created. It seemed without knowingly doing it I had somehow made the 'Burning seppa' (by my next photo). As I warmed myself with its magical, Moses-like glow I pondered over thoughts of swords to come. I just gave the tsuka a little tap with the old rubber mallet to get it back in place and the mekugi fit in no trouble either. The fittings are tight, tight as a nun's arse just the way they should be. Any looseness of the tsuka, after constant kata would put strain on the mekugi so I am glad it all fits for my efforts.
I can't stand it if I can feel a loose anything in the koshirae. One very good attribute of this sword is its fit in its scabbard very well. No tapping, or rattling inside when I give it a shake.
Just to help it along a bit ,I filed the inside of my saya just a little where it was sticking to the habaki. Trick is you don't want to over do it ,just want to help it not hurt it.
I think I am going to have to give this Iaito a 4/5 for presentation simply because I have taken it apart and found no discord with the blade quality or any of its fittings(except the shura tsuba which is why I gave it a 4 and not a 5). The menuki is a coiled dragon in a bronze tone that matches the ito and same very nicely. The Ito seems to be wearing nicely and is quite tight with even diamonds, there is a little movement but nothing to dissappoint.
I do like the sori(curvature) on this blade as well. It is a bit more so than my PPK, gives it a rather promenant feel like you want to hold it blade out for some reason. I think it is just the shift in p.o.b that I am still finding new.
Well I am totally happy with the way it has turned out ,I know it was a small alteration but it also gives me a chance to undress the blade and see what lies under the surface. I can foresee many happy days of training with this Iaito. While I do not do tameshigiri everyday, I try to do Iai kata or jittejutsu at least once in every day so in theory I will get my money's worth more in terms of using it for what it is meant for i.e.training sword. For this I am going to give it 5/5 for Value for money . You would be very hard up to find another carbon-steel Iaito with this quality at this price. Every Cheness blade I get never lets me down. Durable, functional, and the price is just right for my needs.
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #9 on Jun 27, 2007, 1:35pm »
Looks good. Glad to hear your liking it, as I've been eyeing Cheness for some time now. Their popularity here cannot be ignored, and now I've seen what lies beneath, so to speak.
Re: When is a sword not a sword ? « Reply #10 on Jun 28, 2007, 5:05pm »
Thanks, chopchop for putting a review under that thread title! I recall an argumentative thread about when a sword is not a sword....not to bring that up again! Very nice Iato, I'll consider it when I start JSA next fall...
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, you all know me or at least know of me so I will pass on the introductions. As I browse through the reviews section I noticed there was maybe one review for an Iaito(Unsharpened training katana), while this model has been reviewed before by forum member SPUD(very nicely may I say). I am not going to address this entire review in just one post as he has done, but do it in a progressive style over a few postings. As an Iaito is a training weapon it has to “earn its money”to be worthy not just look good so just an 'out-of-the-box' one post review may not be enough . I do intend to change a thing or two on it and may also use this opportunity to educate why someone would actually buy an Iaito over say a sharpened katana (shinken).![[image]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/dazbaba/Iai1.jpg "[image]")
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$300 US right guys
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As I warmed myself with its magical, Moses-like glow I pondered over thoughts of swords to come. ![[image]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o163/dazbaba/Finished005.jpg "[image]")
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