centurion2000 Swordmaster Review Points: 30 member is offline
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Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Thread Started on Oct 14, 2007, 7:30pm »
Review of the Valiant Praetorian Gladius by Brandon (aka Centurion2000) in Texas.
My first review guys ... please go easy on me
This sword was my first purchase in about 6 years of a new sword.
A bit of personal history that may help determine why I rate this blade the way I do. In 1997 I started performing at the Hawkwood mideval Fanatsy Faire in Roanoke Texas (Dallas Ft Worth area). As a stage combat practioner, I had the opportunity to handle quite a few blade while doing what some people might be calling fighting. Our stage style was closer to a choreographed real fight than typical stage combat as we moved at close to full speed. Being that guy I handled steel crowbars like Starfire blades and settled down on a group purchase with friends of a no-name brand of stage combat line.
Why did I choose this blade? I have always preferred Roman/Greek arms and equipment to the Middle Ages or Rennaisance styles of armor and weapons. Perhaps it’s also a personality issue as well (very Roman outlook).
The Praetorian Gladius is quite simply a very handsome copy of the sword that conquered most of the Known world at the time. Dark wood finishings and the brass guard and handle wrappings were what eventually prompted me to choose this over say a Generation 2 Gladius (and the price 165.00 USD at www.armsofvalor.com
The service was simply awesome. I placed the order at around 1400 CDT on 10/8/2007 and specified 3 day air via UPS (it was an extra 5 dollars). It arrived 10/10/2007 and was on my doorstep that evening.
Initial Impressions
When it arrived it was packaged securely with a white box and double wrapped in plastic. Removal involved a letter opener and little effort.
]
First impressions of this were that it had a very good fit and finish but it reminded me of a CAS Iberian spring steel Phillipine made blade. Very nice to look at but I did not expect this weapon to hold up under a lot of heavy stress. Some initial images.
Actual Measurements Blade length: 20” Hilt length: 8” From blade guard to tip of the pommel peen Overall: 28” Guard Width: 3.5” POB (point of balance): 1.75” from base of guard COP (center of percussion - 'the sweet spot'): 14” from the guard (estimated) Weight: 3.0 lbs.
Historical Accuracy
I am certainly not going to claim to be an expert but this does not appear to be close to any other weapon that I have seen online or in the Legio XX pages as a good example of a roman gladius. It is put together very well and is visually pleasing but the scabbard is not accurate nor is the grip, guard or pommel.
Handling
This is one area where this weapon really shines. It is light, quick and the CoB is close to the guard so it feels like you are swinging a small stick instead of a sword. Thrusting and cutting is quick and recovery is almost instant. The limited drawbacks are the round grip in that you do not have a ‘set’ to know by feel. The grip is smooth but not too smooth but personally I would rough it up a little with some sandpaper.
DESIGN, FIT & FINISH
The Blade
The blade on the Gladius is 2.5 inches wide at the guard and 20” inches long. The wasp waist dropsto 2 inches in width and then expands to 2 and one quarter inchese before tapering to the final point. Polishing on this blade appears to have been done with a wire rotary brush which explains the ‘stripe’ pattern running perpendicular to the blade axis. It is a diamond cross section with tapering from the center of the blade to the edges.
It came sharpened but failed a paper cutting test miserablly. It was possible to run your palm across the blade without cutting using the weight of your hand as pressure. Maybe not safe, but after it failed the paper cutting so badly I was not too worried.
I have placed this blade alongside some other weapons I have to demonstrate width and polish levels.
The Grip
The Praetorian Gladius has a rounded wood grip with brass wrappings. Max diameter of the brass wrapping is 1.432” and the wood maxes out 1.226”. This struck me as a fairly thick hand for such a small weapon.
Some measurements
From Guard to pommell Brass wrappings #1 1.209” #2 1.408” #3 1.432” #4 1.404” #5 1.198”
The woodwork is smooth and dark grained and is reminiscient of a walnut wood handle. I was very pleased by the level of craftsmanship in it. My personal recommendation would be to file the wood down to an octagon and flatten the brass fittings out. The wood is extremely smooth.
The pommel
The weapon’s pommel is well made being perfectly round across the tang but is a flattened sphere. It is quite solid and all pieces are tight with no vibrations in the handle. The peen is on tightly but I did not disassemble the hilt to examine it more closely.
Dimensions Width : 2.660” Height: 2.006” Peen is approximately .25” long
The Guard
The guard on this gladius is well constructed and made of dark stained wood (cannot exactly identify what kind but you can see in the pictures). The brass came out well polished with only one small flaw on the plate (see picture). It polishes up quite well and strikes me as very sturdy.
The Scabbard
The scabbard was quite simply a piece of garbage. Black 10oz leather, no wood and EXTREMELY tight. Pulling the weapon from the scabbard after insertion required about a minute worth of effort. No quick draw here. I have another scabbard that I will be using for this weapon.
Testing
As I said the blade was not sharpened very well at all and failed the paper cutting tests miserably. I proceeded to purchase an Accusharp sharpener and ran it 30 times across each side with 15 heavy strokes to trim for the geometry and 15 more light strokes to hone the edge. It did not help much at all. Note that this could be due to bad form but comparitive cutting with another blade seemed to do much better.
Cutting performance was nearly abysmal as it the performance was closer to a baseball bat than a sharp edged object. However, thrusting performance was phenomenal until it impacted against 16 gauge plate armor. The tip then turned but was repairable. A similar blade penetrated the plate armor.
Cutting materials used.
Water bottles Plastic one gallon water bottle (milk jug) 5/8” Plywood
Cut test against plastic
Thrust materials used
Heavy Plastic windhield cleaner jug 5 gallon plastic food grade bucket containing 25pound of pinto beans 16 gauge plate armor (Roman officer’s musculata)
Thrust image
VIDEO #1 CUT AND THRUST
VIDEO #2 Gladius vs Armor
At the end notice the tip.
VIDEO #3 COMPARED THRUST (other blade)
Armor pic after other blade penetrated.
VIDEO #4
Wood Test Plywood is 5/8” thick baby bed material
CONCLUSION and SBG Ratings
Based on testing and performance I would not recommend this as a live steel blade with which to depend upon for your life. It is a poor cutter and not suitable against thrusts against metal armors. This is however a wonderful thrusting blade against anything softer.
My wife on the other hand loved it and will be mounting this on the wall as she thinks it’s wonderful. This weapon hold up reasonably well and after all the cutting and thrust testing I did it did not get loose or feel like a wallhanger in any way.
The drawbacks of this weapon Not sharpened Steel needs to be harder Thrusting tip is extremely weak against hard objects.
Strengths Thrust performed very well against softer objects. Weapon is very attractive visually and in fitting.
Historical Accuracy: 2/5 Fit and Finish: 5/5 Handling: 5/5 Structural Integrity: 2.5/5 (5 for everything but the blade, 2 for the blade) Value for Money: 3/5
OVERALL: 3.875/5 (Add Fit and Finish, Handling, Structural Integrity and Value for money scores together and divide by 4).
It does score well but there is not a section for blade strength or sharpness. Based on these two categories I would not recommend this weapon for combat. For display or light thrusting, I certainly would recommend you add this to your collection.
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2007, 8:27pm by centurion2000 »
- If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job. - The right to self-defence is a basic human right. - No, I don't know everything .... I'm just REALLY good with Google. - When Seconds Count, Police Are Only Minutes Away
centurion2000 Swordmaster Review Points: 30 member is offline
Truth, Justice and the American Way
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 611 Location: DFW Texas area Karma: 39
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #1 on Oct 14, 2007, 8:16pm »
- If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job. - The right to self-defence is a basic human right. - No, I don't know everything .... I'm just REALLY good with Google. - When Seconds Count, Police Are Only Minutes Away
rammstein Guest
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #2 on Oct 14, 2007, 8:38pm »
Not only does he tests swords, he tests sword LEFT-HANDED!
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,376 Location: Australia Karma: 168
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #3 on Oct 14, 2007, 8:55pm »
Very interesting and informative review Brandon! I look forward to the pending vid for completion - but as I mentioned in another thread, I have this same sword and haven't had much opportunity to do anything but look at it and some dry handling.
My own impressions were that it definitely doesn't feel like 3lbs - and handles well IMHO, but the blade is quite thin and not seriously reinforced, so in many ways I would'nt expect it to hold up to the 16 guage thrusting test...
I am a bit surprised at its lack of cutting ability though. The edge seemed ready enough on mine - though the fact that it has a secondary bevel on it and some variations within production may account for it.
Anyway, definitley a good first review - and a good example of AoV's super fast shipping and commitment to overdelivering on customer service.
Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems.
There's an old saying about those who forget history. I don't remember it, but it's good.
trueswordsman Manufacturers and Vendors member is offline
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,290 Karma: 49
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #4 on Oct 14, 2007, 9:04pm »
I will be sure to let Sonny from Valiant know the feedback. I know he is trying to strengthen the reputation of the Valiant line and should be quick to make the necessary changes.
- If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job. - The right to self-defence is a basic human right. - No, I don't know everything .... I'm just REALLY good with Google. - When Seconds Count, Police Are Only Minutes Away
www.drmcninja.com He's a FREAKIN' IRISH NINJA who is also a doctor! This is quite possibly the funniest webcomic in the history of the universe. READ IT, NOW!
rammstein Guest
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #9 on Oct 15, 2007, 3:41pm »
Quote:
Good review. Good on you for taking it to the next level for testing. Your poor armor though. It looks like it's gone through Hell and back...
centurion2000 Swordmaster Review Points: 30 member is offline
Truth, Justice and the American Way
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 611 Location: DFW Texas area Karma: 39
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #10 on Oct 15, 2007, 4:34pm »
Quote:
Good review. Good on you for taking it to the next level for testing. Your poor armor though. It looks like it's gone through Hell and back...
Karma +1 for an informative review!
Oh it's ok. It was a good starter piece of armor but I have my eye on some better suits. Lorica Segmentata and manica here I come Now I just have to get used to toting a 20+ pound shield.
- If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job. - The right to self-defence is a basic human right. - No, I don't know everything .... I'm just REALLY good with Google. - When Seconds Count, Police Are Only Minutes Away
kriegschwert Swordmaster Review Team Member member is offline
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 2,766 Location: Land of Copper & Cacti, USA Karma: 102
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #11 on Oct 15, 2007, 4:49pm »
Man, that tip is a real letdown. I could accept a tiny bend or chip, but that thing looks like a Pringle. About that Badger short sword, was that a custom or one off, or did they used to stock those? That's a very cool looking little sword.
"Few civilizations were as good at stabbing people as the Romans. I mean, Romans stabbed EVERYBODY. Legionnaires stabbed with pilums (spears) and swords. Gladiators stabbed with swords, spears and tridents. Heck even politicians got involved; practically the entire senate stabbed Julius Caesar."
-Strongblade
"I don't need a "Battle Ready" sword. "Bottle Ready" is good enough for me."
-Me
rammstein Guest
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #12 on Oct 15, 2007, 5:54pm »
You could lunge around a corner with that thing....
Still I question just how much abuse that is. Personally, I feel that tip deformation is certainly quite a possible circumstance on a real gladius when jammed into a breastplate..
www.drmcninja.com He's a FREAKIN' IRISH NINJA who is also a doctor! This is quite possibly the funniest webcomic in the history of the universe. READ IT, NOW!
centurion2000 Swordmaster Review Points: 30 member is offline
Truth, Justice and the American Way
Joined: Sept 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 611 Location: DFW Texas area Karma: 39
Re: Valiant Praetorian Gladius Review « Reply #14 on Oct 15, 2007, 10:34pm »
Quote:
Yeah, I kinda thought that too. I don't think any sword was designed to pierce right through plate armor. Maile, sure but steel plate? I dunno....
Don't know about historical swords meant to pierce plate, but it seems like those darksword armory pieces and the badger blades will go right through them.
I've also got a Last Legend Blind Warrior that I've trimmed down to wakizashi length and customized with a chisel point that will pierce that plate as well. *My first sword customization as well*
« Last Edit: Oct 15, 2007, 10:38pm by centurion2000 »
- If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job. - The right to self-defence is a basic human right. - No, I don't know everything .... I'm just REALLY good with Google. - When Seconds Count, Police Are Only Minutes Away
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![[image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Centurion20000/Gladius_Review/04.jpg/IMG<br/><br/><br/>The scabbard was for all intents and purposes a waste of effort on the part of the vendor. Strictly black medium weight leather and way too tight for the blade itself. Image below <br/><br/>IMGhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/Centurion20000/Gladius_Review/scabbard.jpg "[image]")
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About that Badger short sword, was that a custom or one off, or did they used to stock those? That's a very cool looking little sword.