ShooterMike Firearms Moderator Review Team Member member is offline
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Gen2 Henry V Sword « Thread Started on Apr 29, 2008, 11:58pm »
Henry V Sword
From Generation 2
It has long been discussed around the sword forums that Clyde Hollis, the owner of Imperial Weapons and the Generation 2 line of swords was in a business arrangement with the late Hank Reinhardt up until his death. Mr. Reinhardt was designing a number of swords for the Generation 2 line. The subject of this review is one that Hank had a passion for, and it is the first design to be released after his unfortunate passing.
I never met Hank Reinhardt, but I have discussed him with several who knew him. And I think he would have been happy with this sword. And after lengthy negotiations and review by the Reinhardt Estate, they approved this as the first design to be posthumously released.
I've had this sword for three weeks at this writing. It is one of the few preproduction models brought into the U.S. Hopefully, this review can do it justice without being unduly influenced by its association with Hank Reinhardt's legacy. What follows are my observations on this sword prototype, keeping in mind that while I have the greatest respect for Mr. Reinhardt I will attempt to judge this sword solely on its merits.
The Henry V sword is one of the two most famous and best preserved swords from Medieval Europe. It is a centerpiece of the Oakeshott typology. It is a premier example of Ewart Oakeshott's Type XVIII swords and is known as XVIII. 1, appearing on pages 172-173 of Records of the Medieval Sword. Ewart Oakeshott was fortunate enough to be invited to clean and preserve this sword in 1951. In Records, he described it as "...one of the most beautiful medieval swords to handle I have ever known. It is very light (about 2lbs 3ozs) and balanced like a good fishing-rod."
The specs for the Gen2 prototype are as follows.
Specs:
Blade: 27.5 inches Grip: 3.75 inches Overall: 34 inches Guard Height: 8 inches POB: 3.75 inches from base of guard COP: 16-18 inches from base of guard with a "long sweet spot" Weight: 2 lbs. 14 ozs.
THE BLADE
As mentioned, this is a Type XVIII sword, which calls for a flattened diamond cross section, sometimes with a slight to pronounced hollow grind in evidence.
The blade is 0.275" thick at the guard. That's significantly thicker than most heavy swords that are built of 0.250" stock that is then ground down into a sword. It tapers to 0.210" halfway down the blade. then tper to 0.125" about an inch behind the tip. That is roughly 65-70% distal taper in a convex curve. For those who aren't familiar with sword blade geometry, that is a very sophisticated design executed to high standards. I've never seen that kind of work on a sub $300 sword blade.
This sword is also one of the rare inexpensive swords I have found that displays what a hollow ground blade should be like. While the hollow grind is fairly slight and nowhere near as pronounced as on a few higher end swords I've owned or examined, it is still a very nice touch. And it is certainly a rarity in today's market.
The hollow grind works to both make the blade lighter by removing material on each side of the central rib, and it allows the central rib to be thicker to impart more rigidity. The result is a very rigid blade that only quivers when the pommel is struck forcefully. This is a very nice blade for thrusting into hard targets.
This also makes it difficult finding the forward vibration node, sometimes referred to as the Center of Percussion (CoP) or "sweet spot" for cutting. An added benefit is that the hollow grind allows for a thick sword to have a very thin edge without being at all fragile.
THE HILT
The hilt on this prototype is very close to the original. The grip size and length seems just about right. It is tapered on the ends and thicker in the middle, and is barely flattened on the sides to create a slightly oval cross section.
The leather covering is the standard Gen2 black leather with dye that starts to wear off on the hand under sustained use with sweaty hands. In the following pictures, you can notice where some dye and surface cover has worn away.
The pommel is very close to the original in diameter and thickness. It even includes the four-leaf flower designed peen block that the blade tang is peened into.
In looking at closeup pictures of the original pommel, I note that the raised portions around the center seem to be about one-third as thick as on the original and are flattened in a much more "machined" appearance.
Where I note a departure form the original hilt is in subtle parts of the guard. Not that it's unattractive, it's just different . The guard on this prototype seems a bit more detailed than the original, with a much more pronounced cusp protruding down the blade and more pronounced incised lines running parallel to the blade.
Overall, I think this hilt is very nice. And at a sub $300 price point it is outstanding.
THE SCABBARD
The scabbard is standard fare for the Generation 2 line. It's wood core with a metal "muzzle plug" at the point end and a metal locket at the mouth. Then the length of the scabbard is covered with the same black leather that's used for the grip.
I don't find these scabbards attractive, but they are functional and extremely durable. At this price point, they continue to be more than sword buyers should realistically expect. So I consider them to be a bonus.
HANDLING
While the weight is off from the original sword by about 9 ozs. and the handling can't be described as "like a good fishing rod" I feel it has a distinct and pleasing personality of its own. This may not be an exact replica of the original Henry V sword. But it is a darned nice handling sword.
The first time I picked up this sword, I was impressed with its power and control. It isn't a light sword, but it handles quickly and turns well, not something most heavy swords can do. It seems to have a good balance of power and subtlety.
As it came from the box, it didn't feel particularly sharp. And after talking to Cylde I wasn't expecting spectacular results in the cutting tests. After all, hollow ground Type XVIII swords aren't known as power cutters and this one is short to boot.
What these swords are designed for is a balance of reasonable cutting performance along with superior thrusting into hard targets. They were designed to be wedged into the openings in an opponent's armor, then forced through maille or padding to impale or rip open that opponent's body. At the same time, they were designed to perform adequately in the cut against unarmored opponents.
The grip is only 3.75 inches long. Some users may find that a bit short for their comfort, especially if they like longer grips. But as for me, I have come to like a grip that really fits my hand. The pommel should be large enough to provide shelf that butts up against the heel of the palm to for a pivot point during reaching cuts. This swords seems to fit me perfectly in the hammer grip.
Then when reaching out for a cut, it rotates around the pommel into a natural handshake grip, and at the same time staying securely in my grasp without any conscious effort.
CUTTING
I cut quite a few plastic bottles with the Henry V prototype when it first arrived. But the video camera battery wasn't charged up. However, when I got around to rolling and soaking some tatami mats I made sure to get some video.
Let me preface this by saying Clyde cautioned me that I should not expect this sword to be a "great cutter" as it's designed with a prejudice toward the thrust. I told him not to worry. If it just wouldn't cut at all, I wouldn't show it... Yeah right!
In this video you can see if the sword can cut mats. These are 4 feet wide by 76 inches long. And the grass is very thick and stiff. Single mats make a roll that's about 6-7 inches in diameter by 4 feet tall, and to me they are about 40-50% more difficult to cut than Mugen Dachi tatami omote.
Judge for yourself whether the little 27 inch blade sword can cut...
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS
I am starting to fall in love with this sword. I told another forumite that when I pick it up, I get a feeling that I should be wearing full battle armour, tromping across a muddy field in medieval France, moving into close quarters combat with armoured opponents and using this sword to perform various "can opener" routines against my hapless opponents.
There's something that's difficult to describe about how well this sword feels to me. It just seems to be more than the sum of its parts and measurements. At least for me.
Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #1 on Apr 30, 2008, 12:09am »
It certainly seems to be a beauty of a sword. I might just have to pick one up (and I mean it this time) soon. Even though this style isn't my type, a sword this fine deserves my attention.
Very nice cutting, as usual, Mike. Especially on those horizontal cuts, eh?
« Last Edit: Apr 30, 2008, 2:56am by randomnobody »
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,711 Location: Fresno, CA Karma: 96
Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #3 on Apr 30, 2008, 2:14am »
When i went down the the local shop, they were out of tatami
They're getting some more in, and the next time I have free to cut is this weekend... I was planning on doing my review of this sword at that time.
But considering there is no way I could take photographs that could be any more indicative of the sword's aesthetic than what currently rests on this page, I will merely offer my input.
Forgive me, I'm not as generous as Shooter...
The sword *is* hollow ground. I have to give credit where it is due. It is the *least* expensive hollow ground sword I have seen.
But the hollow grinding(on the prototype I got at least) is so shallow it may as well not be - it took me some serious time and inspection to get the light to illuminate the concave transition from spine to edge.
The sword is far from heavy and overall handles better than 90% of the swords in it's pricerange. But I've been spoiled by Gen2's knightly riding sword - which I found to be very very nice. This sword doesn't handle like that at all. It doesn't give me the feeling of wanting to cut, though it is more than quick enough in the hand for it. Unlike Shootermike's, the sword I was sent has a PoB about 4.25'' from the gaurd - a good .5'' farther out than his.
The pommel is very well done, and I must commend the design on the guard - far more than I expected and more than any previous Gen2 sword. That being said, the pommel digs into my hand and hurts it a bit unless I really slip the grip more than I'm used to, and in such a situation I'm not as comfortable using it as fast as I feel I can get it to move.
I don't have the tools to accurately measure the distal taper, but by eyeballing it(and feeling it through a thin cloth while oiling it) I find that about midway through the blade it suddenly gets thicker before restarting its taper downwards.
The point is very sharp(though the edges near the tip are not as sharp as the body of the blade) and very strong. The edges are just a bit sharper than the Riding Sword was when I got it. It is paper sharp, but produces minor jagginess in the paper when shearing it. I would consider its sharpness to be appropriate for its design.
So still a very good sword. Sill very solidly constructed, well tempered(doesn't flex much - but DOES flex a little without taking a set), and finished.
Summary of complaints: Not nearly as well balanced as I had hoped for given the accurateness to the original. Pommel edges chafe my hand. Barely hollow ground. Pommel has a tiny bit of looseness to it, despite the very obvious peening. I'm not worried about it falling off or failing, but it wobbles a hair nonetheless.
I'll let you know more after I cut with it this weekend.
My suggestion for the run: Even if it ends up raising the price a little - deepen the hollow grind a bit. This will improve handling quite a bit, as well as make it more accurate to the original - which is deeply hollow ground.
Swordsman for hire. Money accepted. Ladies' kisses preferred.
ShooterMike Firearms Moderator Review Team Member member is offline
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Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #4 on Apr 30, 2008, 7:25am »
Adam,
Sorry to hear about the grind and taper on your blade. That must make for a significantly different sword. After reading this I went back to mine with a more critical eye. When looking down either side of this blade, the hollow grind is shallow though very obvious. And the taper of the blade is smoothly convex with only some very minor hammer mark "bumps" from the forging process.
I put the calipers on the spine and slowly slid them down the length of the blade while keeping pressure on the jaws. What I found was a variety of places where it was straight, with no taper, and then a lot a spots that started to drop off significantly. But I was unable to find a single spot on the blade where the measurement grew in any way. Obviously, your blade is a lot different.
This demonstrates a good point that I noticed with the VA Practical line as well. When dealing with hand forged swords, expect variance from one sword to the next. A comparison of these first two Henry V prototypes points out just how significant those small differences can be.
Joined: Dec 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,376 Location: Australia Karma: 168
Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #5 on Apr 30, 2008, 7:51am »
Great review guys, I must admit this is probably the most aesthetically pleasing Gen2 sword I have seen in a long while, and its cutting performance and overall qualities puts Gen2 back on the map again, which as a long time, die hard fan is fantastic to see.
True enough that the variations in hand forged swords can be pretty dramatic, but that is the beauty of having several people review a given sword from different angles.
Looking forward to seeing how Adams cutting tests performed. Mike's tests were pretty interesting for a sword that feels essentially quite dull (gotta love blade geomtery!).
Breathe in. Breathe out. Breathe in. Breathe out. Forget this and attaining Enlightenment will be the least of your problems.
There's an old saying about those who forget history. I don't remember it, but it's good.
stevew64 Swashbuckler Review Points: 70 member is offline
"Let's face it, this isn't the worst thing you've ever caught me doing".......on the internet
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Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #6 on Apr 30, 2008, 7:54am »
Mike, Thanks for taking the time, careful measurement, quality photos, target prep & video editing, and thoughtful commentary, all take a lot of time. I for one appreciate it. Very nicely done.
Adam, Please post pictures and Video if you can. Since these are prototypes, It would be nice to see two different pieces. So that we get some Idea of the differences. Thanks.
I don't have the tools to accurately measure the distal taper, but by eyeballing it(and feeling it through a thin cloth while oiling it) I find that about midway through the blade it suddenly gets thicker before restarting its taper downwards.
Thats the thing with a hand forged sub $300 sword. Before that thicker spot what have you got? A thin spot! And thats what I had on my 15thC. Which ended up leading to having to cut 7" off the blade.
Thats the problem with forging. It's a bit hit and miss - pun intended. With my hand ground swords I have never had this problem. It's so slow and controllable that I can make exactly what I want. But G2s have to be made to a budget.
Having said that, this is a fantastic design, and at 2lb 14oz I bet it's hella fun.
I LOVE the guard. I wish Gen 2 sold these guards & pommels which I could use to customise my Fable Blades. I'd buy 5 guards.... I could easy come up with 5 fantasy designs for those.
Mike - excellent effort and a service to the community.
Joined: Nov 2007 Gender: Male Posts: 1,588 Location: Orlando, FL Karma: 71
Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #10 on May 1, 2008, 12:29am »
That he does, Clyde. I have to say, Mike does make very good cuts. I've tried a few of them, and I'll say it's a BIT harder than he makes it look. Haha
Re: Gen2 Henry V Sword « Reply #11 on May 1, 2008, 12:44am »
I can vouch that cutting is significantly harder than Mike makes it look. I used the exact same swords on exactly the same targets, exactly the same stands, weather, time, place...and well...it's harder than he makes it look.
"Few civilizations were as good at stabbing people as the Romans. I mean, Romans stabbed EVERYBODY. Legionnaires stabbed with pilums (spears) and swords. Gladiators stabbed with swords, spears and tridents. Heck even politicians got involved; practically the entire senate stabbed Julius Caesar."
-Strongblade
"I don't need a "Battle Ready" sword. "Bottle Ready" is good enough for me."
Well that just means you need to practice more...which means you need more swords to practice with...right?
Well, it WAS my first time, and unfamiliar swords. Eventually I started to get it, with a two-hander, but we ran out of targets by then.
My friend managed much better than me, though, and he'd never held a sword before in his life. I credit his first exposure being the good stuff and with excellent instruction right off the bat, versus my experiences leading up to this point being with the lower-end goods, and poor form learned from them. I had to unlearn a good deal before I could learn anything.
Now that I've got my 1315, though, I just need something to cut.
And maybe a Gen2 Henry V to play with, too, judging by this review. (Except whatever happened to Adam's sword... )
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(Except whatever happened to Adam's sword... 
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